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[WLK] Paladin Class changes
I believe it's a good idea to make a WLK Paladin thread because the class mechanics have gotten a complete overhaul. Where most classes simply get new talents and skills, the paladin class gets it basic playstyle altered rather dramatically. I admit that up to now I also missed the rather big seal/judgement change because it kinda got lost in all the info.
I hope this helps to create a good overview on jsut how much pallies change.
Blessings and Hands
- A number of Blessings has been REMOVED :
- Blessing of Light
- Blessing of Protection
- Blessing of Sacrifice
- Blessing of Salvation
- The following Blessings stay: Blessing of Might, Blessing of Wisdom, Blessing of Sanctuary, Blessing of Kings
- A new type of spell is introduced called "Hands". Hands are short duration buffs which can be cast on a friendly player. They do NOT remove blessings
- Hand of Protection: A targeted party member is protected from all physical attacks for 10 sec, but during that time they cannot attack or use physical abilities. Players may only have one Hand on them per Paladin at any one time. Once protected, the target cannot be made invulnerable by Divine Shield, Divine Protection or Hand of Protection again for 3 min.
6% of base mana, 30 yd range, Instant cast, 5 min cooldown - Hand of Sacrifice: Places a Hand on the party member, transfering 30% damage taken to the caster. Lasts 12 sec. Players may only have one Hand on them per Paladin at any one time. 6% of base mana, 30 yd range, Instant cast, 2 min cooldown
- Hand of Salvation: Places a Hand on the party or raid member, reducing their total threat by 2% every 1 sec. for 10 sec. Players may only have one Hand on them per Paladin at any one time. 6% of base mana, 30 yd range, Instant cast, 2 min cooldown
- Hand of Protection: A targeted party member is protected from all physical attacks for 10 sec, but during that time they cannot attack or use physical abilities. Players may only have one Hand on them per Paladin at any one time. Once protected, the target cannot be made invulnerable by Divine Shield, Divine Protection or Hand of Protection again for 3 min.
- Blessing of Light does NOT get a Hand, instead the healing it used to add is worked into the existing spells base healing and coefficients.
Seals and Judgements
Some very drastic changes here
- All Seals now last 2 minutes
- Judgements do NOT remove the Seal
- Judgements cause GCD
- Seal of the Crusader has been REMOVED, the effects of this spell are now worked into the base values of other spells
- Both alliance and Horde get Seal of Blood (horde only in TBC) and Seal of Vengeance (allaince only in TBC) but they are named Seal of the Martyr and Seal of Corruption respectively
- Seal of Light, Seal of Wisdom and Seal of Justice have had their judgement effect changed. judging these seals will now do holy damage equal to 36% of your attack power. Don't panic yet, the reason why will be clear in the next paragraph.
- The normal Judgement spell is REMOVED, instead 3 NEW Judgement spells have been ADDED. The names are confusing, but where we currently have only 1 judgemnt to cast, we are getting 3 judgements which will do different things. You will love this change
- Judgement of Light: Unleashes the energy of a Seal spell to judge an enemy for 20 sec, granting melee attacks made against the judged enemy a chance of healing the attacker for [ 18% of AP ]. Refer to individual Seals for additional Judgement effect. Your melee strikes will refresh the spell's duration. Only one Judgement per Paladin can be active at any one time. 5% of base mana, 10 yd range, Instant cast, 10 sec cooldown
- Judgement of Wisdom: Unleashes the energy of a Seal spell to judge an enemy for 20 sec, granting attacks and spells used against the judged enemy a chance to restore [ 9% of AP ] mana to the attacker. Refer to individual Seals for additional Judgement effect. Your melee strikes will refresh the spell's duration. Only one Judgement per Paladin can be active at any one time. 5% of base mana, 10 yd range, Instant cast, 10 sec cooldown
- Judgement of Justice: Unleashes the energy of a Seal spell to judge an enemy for 20 sec, preventing them from fleeing and limiting their movement speed. Refer to individual Seals for additional Judgement effect. Your melee strikes will refresh the spell's duration. Only one Judgement per Paladin can be active at any one time. 5% of base mana, 10 yd range, Instant cast, 10 sec cooldown
- All 3 types of Judgements now cause a debuff which stays active on the target for 20 seconds, they are removed if anotehr type of judgement is used. The Judgements effects come IN ADDITION to the judged seal effect. For example : With Seal of Command active and using Judgement of Wisdom you will do the holy damage as described by SoC, on top of that this judgement will leave a debuff on the mob that gives a chance to restore mana. Essentually this means that you will ALWAYS have 1 of three effects up on the target: restore mana, restore life, or chance to stun. The old judgements effects of light justice and wisdom now become permanent debuffs, a great buff!
Upcoming events
- Dragonsoul 11.2Open — Sun 12/02 20:00
- Dragonsoul 11.3Open — Mon 13/02 20:30
- Dragonsoul 11.4 - Muppets & VanillaOpen — Tue 14/02 20:30
@ Tue, 29/07/2008 - 14:56
I'll add more stuff (talents and new spell related crap) at later time
@ Tue, 29/07/2008 - 19:38
I feel that I should add the following info I found about judgement spells:
The Paladin spell called Judgement (used to Judge Seals) has been removed from the game. It has been replaced by 3 separate Judgement spells. They are:
Judgement of Light: (Available at level 4) Gives each melee attack a chance to heal the Paladin.
Judgement of Wisdom: (Available at level 12) Gives each melee attack a chance to restore some of the Paladin's mana.
Judgement of Justice: (Available at level 28) Gives each melee attack a chance to stun for 2 sec.
Amount of Healing or Mana Regen on Judgements is increased by both Attack Power and Spell Power of the the Paladin who casts the Judgement. (Thus by raising the AP/SP of the Paladin who cast the Judgment, you can increase the amount of Health or Mana returned to the entire raid for each proc.)
The following Seals are currently in the game:
Seal of Righteousness
Seal of Light
Seal of Wisdom
Seal of Justice
Seal of Command
Seal of Vengeance(A)/Corruption(H)
Seal of Blood(H)/Martyr(A)
Most Seals are affected by both Attack Power and Spell Power. The exceptions are Seal of Vengeance/Corruption (based on character sheet DPS, so indirectly modified by AP) and Seal of Blood/Martyr (based on normal 'white' weapon hit damage, so indirectly modified by AP).
When you activate one of the 3 Judgements, the following Always occurs:
Damage is dealt to your target based on your current Seal.
A Debuff is applied to your target. (The Debuff can be found in the second part of the Seal's description.)
Judging a target does NOT consume the seal.
All seals do some base level of damage when Judged.
This includes Seal of Justice, Seal of Wisdom, Seal of Light, and Seal of Vengeance/Corruption ( even when the target has no stack of Debuffs).
The same Seals that do damage in live when judged (Seal of Righteousness and Seal of Command) still do more damage than Seal of Justice, Seal of Wisdom, Seal of Light in the beta.
The Debuff placed on the target is dictated by what Judgement you use. (The one exception to this is when using Seal of Justice. See below.)
Melee Swings still refresh Judgments Debuffs.
Example Scenarios
Example 1:
The Paladin runs up to mob and starts attacking with melee weapon.
All 3 Judgement spells are greyed out and unable to be cast.
The Paladin cast Seal of Light.
Seal of Light buff is now active on the Paladin & ALL THREE JUDGEMENTS (Light/Wisdom/Justice) are now available to be cast.
The Paladin chooses to cast Judgement of WISDOM - three things happen:
1) Seal of LIGHT stays active on the Paladin.
2) Judgement of WISDOM DEBUFF is put on the mob.
3) Mob takes base Holy damage from Judgement spell.
End result: Paladin has Seal of Light's health-regen-on-attack buff, and the mob has Judgement of Wisdom's mana-regen-on-attack Debuff. (Meaning the Paladin is receiving both health and mana back on attack.)
Example 2:
The Paladin runs up to mob and starts attacking with melee weapon.
All 3 Judgement spells are greyed out and unable to be cast.
The Paladin cast Seal of Vengeance/Corruption.
Seal of Vengeance/Corruption buff is now active on the Paladin & ALL THREE JUDGEMENTS (Light/Wisdom/Justice) are now available to be cast.
STACKING SoV/C DEBUFF is placed on the mob next swing doing holy damage over time.
The Paladin chooses to cast Judgement of WISDOM - three things happen:
1) Seal of Vengeance/Corruption stays active on the Paladin.
2) Judgement of WISDOM DEBUFF is put on the mob IN ADDITION TO THE STACKING SoV/C DEBUFF.
3) Mob takes Holy damage from Judgement spell, which is INCREASED by the Seal having an "on Judgement" damage modifier.
End result: The mob now has Seal of Vengeance/Corruption's stacking Holy DoT AND Judgement of Wisdom's mana-regen-on-attack Debuff. (This is NOT a bug as the Seals and Judgements are now separate spells and have their own Debuffs.)
Note: Seal of Vengeance/Corruption are now 100% proc on swing, not "chance on swing".
I demand that my demand for demands that I get demands be met!
@ Tue, 29/07/2008 - 20:01
Good reading
thx both
@ Thu, 31/07/2008 - 12:34
Paladins
* Consecration now scales with attack power and spell power.
* Divine Protection now reduces all damage taken by 50% and increases time between attacks by 100%.
* Exorcism mana cost reduced and now scales with attack power and spell power.
* Eye for an Eye now reflects 10/20% damage from all critical hits.
* Fanaticism now increases chance to critically hit by 5/10/15/20/25%.
* Forbearance duration increased to 3 minutes.
* Improved Blessing of Might increased to 10/20/30/40/50%.
* Judgement has been replaced with 3 new spells; Judgement of Light, Judgement of Wisdom, and Judgement of Justice. All Judgement spells are considered ranged attacks for purposes of how they hit and how they critically hit. All cause damage based on attack power and spell power.
o Judgement of Light now heals based on the Paladin’s attack power and spell power, the effect can not trigger more than once ever 4 seconds.
o Judgement of Justice will no longer prevent Fear effects, but will only prevent NPCs from fleeing (e.g. at low health).
o Judgement of Wisdom now restores mana based on the Paladin’s attack power and spell power, the effect can not trigger more than once every 4 seconds.
* Precision has been removed.
* Pursuit of Justice reduced to 2 ranks for 8/15% movement increase and 1/2% less chance to be hit by spells.
* Righteous Defense no longer costs mana and the global cooldown has been removed.
* Sacred Duty now also reduces the cooldown of Divine Protection.
* All Seals have been reduced to 1 rank and now cost 14% of base mana. The duration has been increased to 2 minutes and are no longer consumed when a Judgement spell is cast. The effects can be triggered from all weapon based special abilities.
o Seal of Blood now increases Judgement damabe by 45% of weapon damage.
o Seal of Command now increases Judgement damage by 30% of weapon damage, 60% on stunned targets.
o Seal of Righteousness deals damage based on weapons peed plus an amount based on attack power and spell power, increases Judgement damage by 25%.
o Seal of Vengeance damage over time effect duration increased to 18 seconds and now applies its effect on every swing, causes damage based on attack power and spell power, and increases Judgement damage by 10% per stack of the damage over time effect.
* Summon Warhorse and Summon Charger mana cost removed and no longer causes a global cooldown.
* Vindication reduced to 2 ranks for 10/20% attribute reduction.
@ Wed, 20/08/2008 - 17:50
thats bloody insane, you just saved Shy from beeing ebayed
Tinùviél "Mmmmm shadowtrap... whats that ?"
@ Wed, 20/08/2008 - 22:46
Pyroxian Firelord - The True Living Flame
@ Thu, 21/08/2008 - 14:02
BOS is going to be no more long live DPS buffs.
Blessing of Salvation changes
One change we made recently is baking in the old bonus from Blessing of Salvation into tanking forms. Up until now you were pretty much just doing without the old Salv because there was no way to replace it, and many raiding guilds will tell you that buff is (was) mandatory. Now you get it for free.
That obviously won't help survival much, but it will affect threat enormously. (src)
Live Long Die well
@ Thu, 21/08/2008 - 17:59
dammit
/angry fist
I am 53% addicted to World of Warcraft.
@ Thu, 21/08/2008 - 22:03
http://www.gamona.de/gamonatv/world-of-warcraft-wrath-of-the-lich-king,g...
they're nerfing paladins already lol - took them long enough
Tinùviél "Mmmmm shadowtrap... whats that ?"
@ Thu, 21/08/2008 - 23:16
they're nerfing paladins already lol - took them long enough
But but we get CC: repentance lasts 60 seconds and is usuable on multiple types of mobs
@ Fri, 22/08/2008 - 15:21
Been playing with a tallents trees and working on some therory crafters, and some very strange things are happening with the pallys, which i am sure will get nerfed soon.
as u know i am healing class and tbh intend to stay so in WOTLK, for other heling pallys a few notes. the ausom new tallent
sheath of light
Increases your spell power by an amount equal to 10/20/30% of your attack power and your critical healing spells heal the target for 20/40/60% of the healed amount over 12 seconds
this may not sound great at first but if u think we will have nearly a 40% crit when this comes out on HL, also i know we dont have a great deal of AP ecen with out it we have around 500 this 150SP = just under +300 healing (i know i have rounded up but u get the idea) with improved BOM this gose up to nearly +500 healing.
an average HL crit curently gose for around 6k this means with curent equipment we can get a free HOT of 3600. This is ofc taking into acount that we will not be down grading spells any more due tho the mana impact thay have introduced.
so for his one tallent we will get between 300 and 500 extra healing and a hot for about 3600.
will be looking in detail at other talents and then new spell book thingys soon,
boy i am boord at work at the moment lol
Live Long Die well
@ Fri, 22/08/2008 - 15:26
Quick question for our beta tester,
if posible can you fined out somthing about the new talent Divine Guardian
Divine Guardian Rank 2
While Divine Shield is active 30% of all damage taken by party or raid members within 30 yards is redirected to the Paladin.
what i wish to know is the damage the pally recives absorbed by his shield so pally gets no damage, or will he simply drop dead from taking 30% damage from everyone. lol
thank you
Live Long Die well
@ Fri, 22/08/2008 - 15:45
if posible can you fined out somthing about the new talent Divine Guardian
Divine Guardian Rank 2
While Divine Shield is active 30% of all damage taken by party or raid members within 30 yards is redirected to the Paladin.
what i wish to know is the damage the pally recives absorbed by his shield so pally gets no damage, or will he simply drop dead from taking 30% damage from everyone. lol
thank you
he gets no damage
@ Fri, 22/08/2008 - 15:58
nice this then done make an intresting option especally for raid builds
Live Long Die well
@ Sat, 23/08/2008 - 06:53
nice posts, gief WOTLK
@ Mon, 01/09/2008 - 10:47
from last patch
there
is
no
cooldown
!!
and those heals can crit, proccing illumination
(overpowered)
Tinùviél "Mmmmm shadowtrap... whats that ?"
@ Mon, 01/09/2008 - 13:34
prot tree still looks a bit bloated to me
"To strike Marcbolan is to strike an anvil. You are more likely to re-shape your weapon than to move him… and heavens forbid he lands on you..."
@ Mon, 01/09/2008 - 13:39
I stoped caring about the paladin prot tree after watching that video of a DK tanking 20 adds with his 2h
Tinùviél "Mmmmm shadowtrap... whats that ?"
@ Mon, 01/09/2008 - 15:33
can things get worse hang its blizz yes they can if it does im going bloody deathknight in wotlk.
@ Mon, 01/09/2008 - 16:41
I wonder if they'll fix Judgement of the Wise, because the whole "buff stacking" patch also completely destroyed the paladins mana regen. If they don't fix it ret paladins will be unplayable.
the holy top talent : I do hope your limited to 1 target as a beacon else it's ridiculously OP, well it is OP in that state as you effectively heal 2 tanks at the same time.
@ Tue, 02/09/2008 - 11:00
You gotta remember it's still beta, it seems blizz have their hands full trying to get around the new buff and debuff system, I'm pretty sure it'll get resolved since theres a massive amount of forums posts with ppl concerned about the jotw and vengeance nerfs. Didn't realise how passionate ppl are about their paladins ^^.
Quote from a Blue post.
"We haven't done much work on mana generation or sustainability in part because we were working on the massive buff changes and the mana battery mechanics in general. While managing your mana is something we want you to have to consider (else why have mana at all?), ideally we don't want to balance a class around "well this guy can do a lot but runs out of mana really fast." That's not a fun mechanic."
"To strike Marcbolan is to strike an anvil. You are more likely to re-shape your weapon than to move him… and heavens forbid he lands on you..."
@ Tue, 02/09/2008 - 22:37
there
is
no
cooldown
!!
and those heals can crit, proccing illumination
(overpowered)
dont forget they we can also heal any one who is affected by the beacon and the main one gets 100% of the heal as well
Live Long Die well
@ Tue, 02/09/2008 - 22:51
doesn't benefit from overhealing tho
Tinùviél "Mmmmm shadowtrap... whats that ?"
@ Wed, 17/09/2008 - 10:04
http://www.worldofraids.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=3569&c=15
melee haste,
melee crit and...
spellpower ?
What did I miss ?
Tinùviél "Mmmmm shadowtrap... whats that ?"
@ Wed, 17/09/2008 - 16:58
melee haste,
melee crit and...
spellpower ?
What did I miss ?
Haste now affects BOTH spells and melee
Crit now affects BOTH spells and melee
Hit now affects BOTH spells and melee
basically melee crit/hit/haste and spellhit/crit/haste have been merged into 1 stat : hit/crit/haste.
It's another reason why Ret rocks now, while stacking melee stats like AP and crit you are also stacking healing stats because AP gets converted into spellpower and all the other stats work both ways.
@ Wed, 17/09/2008 - 17:06
nerf
A man is but the product of his thoughts.
What he thinks, he becomes.
@ Wed, 17/09/2008 - 17:14
Haste now affects BOTH spells and melee
Crit now affects BOTH spells and melee
Hit now affects BOTH spells and melee
basically melee crit/hit/haste and spellhit/crit/haste have been merged into 1 stat : hit/crit/haste.
might have missed that indeed
but then again...
why Spell power and not AP ? I know judgments/consecration etc scale with spell power, but since spell power scales with AP now for ret, why not just put AP on retribution gear ? since overall it will affect the dge output more than spellpower does anyway;
or is it that Blizz finally gave in the idea that paladins are not warriors, and should stack spellpower even when smashing things !? omg ! nerf !
Tinùviél "Mmmmm shadowtrap... whats that ?"
@ Wed, 17/09/2008 - 17:59
might have missed that indeed
but then again...
why Spell power and not AP ? I know judgments/consecration etc scale with spell power, but since spell power scales with AP now for ret, why not just put AP on retribution gear ? since overall it will affect the dge output more than spellpower does anyway;
or is it that Blizz finally gave in the idea that paladins are not warriors, and should stack spellpower even when smashing things !? omg ! nerf !
You really didn't read much yet about WLK did you?
The item you linked is a HEAL item, not a ret item. ret items have strenght stam hit crit haste AP, nothing else (not even intel).
To explain : + healing and + spelldamage have been removed from gear. Instead a new stat is introduced called spellpower. spellpower and spelldam are essentually the same, just a renamed thing. For healers spellpower will have roughly half the value as the current + healing items have, to compensate all healing spell had their coefficients multiplied by 1.88 so the actual healing done remains the same. When Patch 3.02 is introduced all items currently in the game will be converted (so a healing weapon with 450 healing right now will become a weapon with 230 spellpower).
I hope you understand now that the item you linked is obviously a healer item.
@ Wed, 17/09/2008 - 18:52
I do
Tinùviél "Mmmmm shadowtrap... whats that ?"
@ Sun, 12/10/2008 - 07:15
Lol, ret survivability is pretty crazy atm. i just logged Lynn on the PTR to do some serious testing. I soloed all of normal Botanica up to 2nd boss as a pure ret spec. I couldn't kill the bosses though (first one hit too hard (got her to 60%), second one healed too much). Seal of Light + Art of War + Divine Storm + judgement of Light= awesome selfhealing at nerf of DPS. Judgement and Seal combined give chance to heal 1200 on hit (procs every few seconds with a full rotation), DS does 20% of dam as self heal, adn Art of War procs instant Flash of Light heals on crit of judgements and stuff
Hardest was packs of more than 3 mobs since I got too much damage then. I had to add in some LoS running and bubble and Repentance abuse and a few pots here and there. The birds sucked bigtime since they chainstunned me.
Also tried Mechanar and got pretty close to first boss but didn't manage to get past those aoe bomb throwers, painfull experience those
Ret damage being OP is something I don't agree with, I only did some 850 DPS in T4ish gear. Being a high survival class however is pretty clear O.o. Ofc in raids it'll work slightly different as You won't be using Seal of Light (but a damage seal instead) and judgement of Light (Judgement of wisdom is jsut too good a raid mana buff to neglect), and Divine Storm healing will heal the raid and not just myself.
In any event a very pleasant and unusual experience lol.
@ Sun, 12/10/2008 - 08:36
ret damage in raids on the ptr i'd say in spot on, very nice dps, its the pvp side that many people are moaning about. Ret palas can deal out incredible burst damage, while healing at the same time. Most classes now find them impossible to kill when the retadin is playing well.
@ Sun, 12/10/2008 - 09:01
If Blizz and forums are to be believes Ret PvE DPS is subtop. That means that a rogue and a mage in same gear and same skilled player will outDPS them. The reason for this lesser DPS is the ton of raid utility a ret pally brings ofc.
PvP I can't judge (I'm a pvp noob) very well. However none of my crits go over 4k atm. Which isn't overpowered at lvl 70. But paladin have their famous triple crit where 3 abilities can crit at same time in 1 second leading to crazy 10k burst damage. The chance this happens is rather low though but when it happens the recipient is screwed. But keep in mind paladins also have slow attack speed and all skills on long CD. The 3 primary attacks are on 3.5 CD (autoattack) CS (6 sec CD) and DS (10 sec CD).
)
Maybe PvP aren't used yet to how to kill a paladin atm, there are some significant weaknesses: being very sensitive to any mana drain and no abilities that extend beyond 10y. Drain + kite = dead pally (I think anyway what the hell do i know about PvP
In any event, if a rogue is allowed to stunlock clothies from 100% to 0% I don't see why a pally can't multicrit in arena