personaly i love dragons breath. For 5 man groups its deff a life saver. either u kill a mob if u overagro by using blast wave and then dragons breath or u use dragons breath and get away with blink ( effectifly u got your self an other frostnova effect) i love the aoe power u have in close combat with that combo.
But its a total diff style 2 play and u ve gotta like it (more risk but more fun imo
on the other hand for raiding ice block is a realy nice life saver.
I my self just dont like arcane so the only way i would use it would be as secondary tree for + spell dmg and +int.
all in all ..... i like dragonsbreath and if u go that far in fire i would take it. but ice block will always be the more sencible way 2 go for raids.
i dont think the aoe power of the 38*fire is much worse than of the 41*fire as both have blast wave and damagewise dragons breath is not so much harder hitting than coc if u have ice shards. the only real difference is the disorient effect imho.
In 5 mans I think disorient is better as it is much more often usable than iceblock due to the way shorter cooldown. But in raids u normalyy cant disorient anybody so for raids i think iceblock is superior.
As u have deep fire, do u have something like 12/xx/3 or do u have shatter ?
I agree with gno, great damage though you can become an agro maniac, but there are other ways of solving that (though not as good as Ice block ofc) i have gone with blazing speed, so i would normally dragons breath then for some reason it seems to proc blazing speed with me when i most need it (lucky!) which is just as good, im still my 12/46/3 spec and aint planning on changing it except maybe one day i would like to try out 40/0/21 (40/21/0 is a crap spec imo you need to go pretty much full out fire to feel the power =P)
________________________________
Pyrox - The True Living Flame
after 2,5 nights in Kara, some heroics and loads (for me at last) ogre grinding im kinda disappointet with fire from the effectivness. (all based on around +700 spellpower and 37% crit)
Its definitly a playstyle with various elements, but damagewise it just plain sucks imho. Why ?
Worst thing is the crit meachnic, the dot component that gets overwritten or however it is just plain bad, you have a high overall critchance but 50% of all the crit effects just vanish. It's perhaps bearable in raids, if u grind its so bad u crit, and instead the mob dies its bashing u for around 4 more seconds. So u cast another spell to kill it. If the crits dont happen at the first hit they are useless.
2nd, the fireball is hitting like a girl compared to arcane/frost. The frostbolt is shorter cast and hits way harder (I have around 180 more spellpower with this specc), the normal crits are higher than pyro crits and applied instant.
And last but not least, the mana usage is so high that u are oom in 3 of the 4 bossfights I know so far in Kara. Until we have way more dps and can down the bosses a lot faster I dont think that will change.
Yesterday e.g. at moroes, the grp constellation isnt megadps, after killing 2 adds and brought himself to 60% i was oom after 2 stones, 1 pot and evocation. Thats just plain unusable in a bossfight. Both Gno and me running dry in every long fight is kinda silly. As we have no lifetap and can't generate 4k mana with a simple bandage, as long as we are in the trials and the fights take very long, I'll go back frost.
So theres the question, has anybody tried out the 41 arcane in instances ? That slow thing slows movement AND attackspeed by 50%, and even if its not working on bosses, it will help a very lot on hard adds like the ones before opera event.
I will try that one out for the next raid, meaning there is no ice block. As there is no block anyway i will go something like 44/0/16 and try the empowred arcane missles full speced too.
Last time they were doing 550 normal / critting 1,1k,fully specced it will be 700/1,3k i think. Its quite nice to use on a clearcast.
Though the range of frost will be poor, but in raids that normally wont be a problem I hope.
So if anyone has any experiance with this arcane slow pls post in here.
I tried full arc before tbc whent life but after we got the new skills/talents> i didnt like it but thats not a fair comparisment i think. a) we have more talent points atm and b) the encounters r just allot diff. the thing that amased me from arc was that i was oom all the time aswell (like fire).
Can u make a link of your frost / arc spec with frost beeing the main 1. i was realy stunned when u had that spec with your dmg out put in kara (i think it was 2 weeks ago).
i ll stay fire for next run (i ll prob have 2 kite the strawman) and if u have imp frost bolt u ll have 2 kite the tin man, tho i dont remember c ing him on our "have a looksy wipe ":) but then again it was late.
the reson why i am fire atm is coss i just like the play stile. i ve been frost for ages and i just need some time off from it. And i realy dont like the elemental > if only we had an other finall tallent in frost
it will be interesting 2 c if that slow is any good in inst but tbh i dont think anything can top your arc /frost dmg out put
trev
i am realy tired atm so prob didnt make any sence but feel free 2 discuss it in the mage channel later
atm i am repeatadly getting yelled at for over agroing so i mgith choose the 40 arc and 21 frost dpec for an easier shall we say social life with the guild =P only thing that bothers me about is that forst is pretty much frostbolt + frostbolt + frostbolt where the game play in my opinion is funner in fire.
________________________________
Pyrox - The True Living Flame
yesterday unfortunatly it shows that the Ushers in Kara are immune to Slow, so its not helping there.
I will stick one or two weeks to it and see what its good for, in heroics it seem to be a real nice add on. Makes pulls a lot saver, as u can put it on a sheep without popping the sheep, and then pull it with a icelands and tank has all the time of the world to take over aggro as the mob is really slow chasing you
Cleopatra has taken spellfire for tailoring so my beloved Frost spec is going to have to change. I've got +570 base spell damage and with some gem tweeks could easily get 600. Beyond that it looks difficult (but not impossible). I should be able to get maybe 50 more from T3.5 gear and spellthreads and +20 on gloves. However the spellfire stuff (and similar shadow) doesn't have any +sta so basically useless in raids. However once I've finally got the set I will respec to arcane just to see how it goes. However since I don't want to spend every evening grinding elements for fire and mana drops it will be a while.
Just to compare, from gear I have 695 Spellpower atm with 19% crit, with the arcane talents, BoK and Motw ill end up with 835 in a raid, normally 25-26% crit depends on single items ill swap situationaly.
Fully potted up I can reach 950 which is pretty crazy - Ill hope I'll get it someday without pots.
Still I have 2 "bad" items on me which is robe and pants, and the exalted HH 1 h is missing so I can get around +60 more with blue gear I think.
Though to get the last good pieces require some time as 10% drops are needed in a long instance...dunno if I will get them.
honestly i do normally wait unless i have clicked a trinket or something that i dont wana be wasted, all i did were scorches prettymuch which are lower threat moves compared to fireballs but still got agro, but imo frost just has this whole feeling of less threat and if i get attack for whatever reason i can ice block. Plus i have wanted to try out the 40/0/21 spec for a bit and i gotta say i love the crits, low mana cost, loads of mana, and ofcourse the ice block =P
________________________________
Pyrox - The True Living Flame
atm i have +750 fire damage with 21% crit chnage, i am specced
40/21/0 so iv got over 10k mana and iv got alot of stam gear because i do alot of arenas - about 8.2k health unbuffed.
i like my spec for instanceing, if you are scorch specced it is fiarly mana efficient and with the extra mana its no problem... i have the talent which reduces my threat and my usual playing style on a mob in a raid is
scorch x5 - POM - Arcane power - Pyro - fireballs till dead
it works very well... i used that in gruuls lair the other night was 2nd on damage when i left... Iv been pretty much every spec you possibly can (i tend to respec alot) and this is what suits me the best.
Helz
@ Wed, 21/02/2007 - 16:10
personaly i love dragons breath. For 5 man groups its deff a life saver. either u kill a mob if u overagro by using blast wave and then dragons breath or u use dragons breath and get away with blink ( effectifly u got your self an other frostnova effect) i love the aoe power u have in close combat with that combo.
But its a total diff style 2 play and u ve gotta like it (more risk but more fun imo
on the other hand for raiding ice block is a realy nice life saver.
I my self just dont like arcane so the only way i would use it would be as secondary tree for + spell dmg and +int.
all in all ..... i like dragonsbreath and if u go that far in fire i would take it. but ice block will always be the more sencible way 2 go for raids.
trev
@ Wed, 21/02/2007 - 16:20
Hm,
i dont think the aoe power of the 38*fire is much worse than of the 41*fire as both have blast wave and damagewise dragons breath is not so much harder hitting than coc if u have ice shards. the only real difference is the disorient effect imho.
In 5 mans I think disorient is better as it is much more often usable than iceblock due to the way shorter cooldown. But in raids u normalyy cant disorient anybody so for raids i think iceblock is superior.
As u have deep fire, do u have something like 12/xx/3 or do u have shatter ?
@ Thu, 22/02/2007 - 09:12
I agree with gno, great damage though you can become an agro maniac, but there are other ways of solving that (though not as good as Ice block ofc) i have gone with blazing speed, so i would normally dragons breath then for some reason it seems to proc blazing speed with me when i most need it (lucky!) which is just as good, im still my 12/46/3 spec and aint planning on changing it except maybe one day i would like to try out 40/0/21 (40/21/0 is a crap spec imo you need to go pretty much full out fire to feel the power =P)
________________________________
Pyrox - The True Living Flame
@ Fri, 02/03/2007 - 17:05
Hm,
after 2,5 nights in Kara, some heroics and loads (for me at last) ogre grinding im kinda disappointet with fire from the effectivness. (all based on around +700 spellpower and 37% crit)
Its definitly a playstyle with various elements, but damagewise it just plain sucks imho. Why ?
Worst thing is the crit meachnic, the dot component that gets overwritten or however it is just plain bad, you have a high overall critchance but 50% of all the crit effects just vanish. It's perhaps bearable in raids, if u grind its so bad u crit, and instead the mob dies its bashing u for around 4 more seconds. So u cast another spell to kill it. If the crits dont happen at the first hit they are useless.
2nd, the fireball is hitting like a girl compared to arcane/frost. The frostbolt is shorter cast and hits way harder (I have around 180 more spellpower with this specc), the normal crits are higher than pyro crits and applied instant.
And last but not least, the mana usage is so high that u are oom in 3 of the 4 bossfights I know so far in Kara. Until we have way more dps and can down the bosses a lot faster I dont think that will change.
Yesterday e.g. at moroes, the grp constellation isnt megadps, after killing 2 adds and brought himself to 60% i was oom after 2 stones, 1 pot and evocation. Thats just plain unusable in a bossfight. Both Gno and me running dry in every long fight is kinda silly. As we have no lifetap and can't generate 4k mana with a simple bandage, as long as we are in the trials and the fights take very long, I'll go back frost.
So theres the question, has anybody tried out the 41 arcane in instances ? That slow thing slows movement AND attackspeed by 50%, and even if its not working on bosses, it will help a very lot on hard adds like the ones before opera event.
I will try that one out for the next raid, meaning there is no ice block. As there is no block anyway i will go something like 44/0/16 and try the empowred arcane missles full speced too.
Last time they were doing 550 normal / critting 1,1k,fully specced it will be 700/1,3k i think. Its quite nice to use on a clearcast.
Though the range of frost will be poor, but in raids that normally wont be a problem I hope.
So if anyone has any experiance with this arcane slow pls post in here.
@ Sat, 03/03/2007 - 02:33
I tried full arc before tbc whent life but after we got the new skills/talents> i didnt like it but thats not a fair comparisment i think. a) we have more talent points atm and b) the encounters r just allot diff. the thing that amased me from arc was that i was oom all the time aswell (like fire).
Can u make a link of your frost / arc spec with frost beeing the main 1. i was realy stunned when u had that spec with your dmg out put in kara (i think it was 2 weeks ago).
i ll stay fire for next run (i ll prob have 2 kite the strawman) and if u have imp frost bolt u ll have 2 kite the tin man, tho i dont remember c ing him on our "have a looksy wipe ":) but then again it was late.
the reson why i am fire atm is coss i just like the play stile. i ve been frost for ages and i just need some time off from it. And i realy dont like the elemental > if only we had an other finall tallent in frost
it will be interesting 2 c if that slow is any good in inst but tbh i dont think anything can top your arc /frost dmg out put
trev
i am realy tired atm so prob didnt make any sence but feel free 2 discuss it in the mage channel later
@ Sun, 04/03/2007 - 01:44
atm i am repeatadly getting yelled at for over agroing so i mgith choose the 40 arc and 21 frost dpec for an easier shall we say social life with the guild =P only thing that bothers me about is that forst is pretty much frostbolt + frostbolt + frostbolt where the game play in my opinion is funner in fire.
________________________________
Pyrox - The True Living Flame
@ Sun, 04/03/2007 - 10:05
If you find fire more fun then stick with fire
Can't you just wait longer before you start casting and maybe install a threat meter if you haven't already, it helps a lot on bosses
@ Sun, 04/03/2007 - 15:09
<==> get a budgie, they generate less threat.
@ Sun, 04/03/2007 - 17:41
What Goldie said
If u wanna be fire u should stick with that. Just take it a bit easy on the dps, dont focus that much on being nr 1 on dm
@ Mon, 05/03/2007 - 10:25
So,
yesterday unfortunatly it shows that the Ushers in Kara are immune to Slow, so its not helping there.
I will stick one or two weeks to it and see what its good for, in heroics it seem to be a real nice add on. Makes pulls a lot saver, as u can put it on a sheep without popping the sheep, and then pull it with a icelands and tank has all the time of the world to take over aggro as the mob is really slow chasing you
@ Mon, 05/03/2007 - 14:50
Maran et al,
Cleopatra has taken spellfire for tailoring so my beloved Frost spec is going to have to change. I've got +570 base spell damage and with some gem tweeks could easily get 600. Beyond that it looks difficult (but not impossible). I should be able to get maybe 50 more from T3.5 gear and spellthreads and +20 on gloves. However the spellfire stuff (and similar shadow) doesn't have any +sta so basically useless in raids. However once I've finally got the set I will respec to arcane just to see how it goes. However since I don't want to spend every evening grinding elements for fire and mana drops it will be a while.
@ Mon, 05/03/2007 - 15:22
Just to compare, from gear I have 695 Spellpower atm with 19% crit, with the arcane talents, BoK and Motw ill end up with 835 in a raid, normally 25-26% crit depends on single items ill swap situationaly.
Fully potted up I can reach 950 which is pretty crazy - Ill hope I'll get it someday without pots.
Still I have 2 "bad" items on me which is robe and pants, and the exalted HH 1 h is missing so I can get around +60 more with blue gear I think.
Though to get the last good pieces require some time as 10% drops are needed in a long instance...dunno if I will get them.
@ Wed, 07/03/2007 - 09:12
honestly i do normally wait unless i have clicked a trinket or something that i dont wana be wasted, all i did were scorches prettymuch which are lower threat moves compared to fireballs but still got agro, but imo frost just has this whole feeling of less threat and if i get attack for whatever reason i can ice block. Plus i have wanted to try out the 40/0/21 spec for a bit and i gotta say i love the crits, low mana cost, loads of mana, and ofcourse the ice block =P
________________________________
Pyrox - The True Living Flame
@ Tue, 01/05/2007 - 10:20
atm i have +750 fire damage with 21% crit chnage, i am specced
40/21/0 so iv got over 10k mana and iv got alot of stam gear because i do alot of arenas - about 8.2k health unbuffed.
i like my spec for instanceing, if you are scorch specced it is fiarly mana efficient and with the extra mana its no problem... i have the talent which reduces my threat and my usual playing style on a mob in a raid is
scorch x5 - POM - Arcane power - Pyro - fireballs till dead
it works very well... i used that in gruuls lair the other night was 2nd on damage when i left... Iv been pretty much every spec you possibly can (i tend to respec alot) and this is what suits me the best.
Helz
@ Tue, 01/05/2007 - 17:07
I was so wrong!
(last sentance)
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Pyroxian Firelord - The True Living Flame